Economy observations

Synapz, I don't think this thread will be considered complaining. I certainly don't mean it to be.

Typically, new players are killing animals until they realize the macro-mechanics of the game. Then they just pvp. They realize that no matter how much they upgrade their gear, it always eventually gets stolen. So they skill up by pvping.

The exception is all the new players who are being tipped by the 'veterans' that skill is everything, gear is futile.

So what happens to the economy is that very little gold comes into it. What comes in is by new players, is used to upgrade gear to a level commonly circulated, and then eventually disappears with that gear when a player quits playing the game.

So, being a good game playing citizen, who feels a social responsibility to make the game experience better for everyone, I would love to kill a lot of animals to bring money into the stagnant economy. However, I can't. Literally can't do it, because of the 7-8 bots that are constantly hitting me (the game makes you wait 10 seconds or so after pvp before you attack an animal). I don't even have 3 seconds between hits from people skilling off of me.

Now, I'm not complaining about bots or lower levels skilling off of me. I'm still observing the economy. If you type 'ws', you'll see I'm in the top five for nice equipment. I have nickel gear. The top 5 or 10 equipped characters have either nickel or iron, and they'll keep having nickel or iron for a long damn time. I'm not sure we'll ever pass nickel or iron. I'm excluding Jebbus for now, but I'll come back to him later.

If you type 'info swords', you'll see a list of materials for gear. Nickel and iron are 7th and 8th out of 25.

Now, one might *think* that a good solution would be to increase the effectiveness of gear vs. skills. The hope would be to get people more concerned about lvling up their gear, and less concerned with skilling. Unfortunately this solution is no solution at all, and makes the problem worse. This is because no matter what, good gear will naturally and eventually flow (and by flow I mean get stolen) by those with high skills. But, since gear is more effective now, it will be virtually impossible for anyone to steal that gear back, making the gap between the highers and lowers even wider. Case in point is Jebbus. I really can't imagine anyone killing him. I hope that Acidburn reads this post and then tries, though, so that he can tell us how it went.

I propose that the pvp to pvm cooldown rate be abolished. While this won't make everything better, it at least creates a system where it's possible for gold to enter into the economy.

Hi Jet, thanks for your observations.

I'm sorry to tell you that things are progressing as I hoped they would, after a LOT of tweaking.

I want people to compete with one another, not the animals.

I only have the animals in there to produce money when people leave with their gear.

I know it seems like there isn't any of impetus for people to kill animals, but there is a little (that's why you see people getting killed by them every few seconds), and a little is all I really want.

In the end, this is all about (not so?) friendly competition, and I think I am getting what I set out for. I know, I know, I'm evil.

Player input is always insightful, and I always want more. Please, players, keep this discussion going so I can learn how to make the game better for you.

Quote :

I want people to compete with one another, not the animals.

The only reason people will be killing animals is to gain an edge to compete with one another. After all, the game is called 'Pkillers'. I think that people will realize really soon that it's very efficient to steal gear instead of earn it. What animal killing does is gives the option for higher-skilled characters to compete with each other more dynamically.

I will lower the timer to 3 seconds.

Hm...

Firstly, regarding bots. When I first heard that there were bots in the game, I thuoght they were created by you, Synapz. Having randomly named, randomly skilled "official" bots, which solely farm animals and upgrade their gear means that the game will slowly but steadily move forward in gear-level.

Secondly, regarding gear-tweaking. I don't know how it currently works, but what I THINK is the case is skill level determines whether you hit or miss, and whether your get hit or parry. Equipment determines damaged dealt and damaged recieved.
I think equipment should ALSO modify your skill level. Maybe swords/shields should be worth, like, 50 points a skill level? So if I am a 2000/2000 player with a lvl 19 sword and a lvl 17 shield, my new skill is 2000 + 950 / 2000 + 850 = 2950 / 2850
I think that would make equipment worth more AND give low level players with good equipment a fighting chance at keeping their equipment from high level players.

UI note: The skill levels could be show like this:
Offense: 2000 (+950 sword)
Defense: 2000 (+850 shield)

Lastly, it should be less likely that you steal someone's equipment. Say, no more than 5%. If there are more stats in PK2, stat boosts and gold steals should be the main incentive for attacking someone; not equipment.

Thoughts?

Currently, damage is calculated as a function of skill and weapons, as such:

(offense * (weapon * .75 + 1) * (random %50..110)) - (defense * (shield * .75 + 1) * (random %50..110))

Damage is maxed out at about 15% of max HP, and the minimum is zero, which is a parry.

I have been toying with the idea of reinstating a minimum damage, at about 3% maximum HP. People heal at about 3.3% HP per second, so no one person would be able to kill anyone they couldn't normal hit, but two people could do so slowly, working together.

I think this might solve the botting problem.

I'd like some feedback.

I think that's a great idea. It would allow weaker players a chance to gang up and steal equipment from stronger players.

Jet wrote:

Now, one might *think* that a good solution would be to increase the effectiveness of gear vs. skills. The hope would be to get people more concerned about lvling up their gear, and less concerned with skilling. Unfortunately this solution is no solution at all, and makes the problem worse. This is because no matter what, good gear will naturally and eventually flow (and by flow I mean get stolen) by those with high skills. But, since gear is more effective now, it will be virtually impossible for anyone to steal that gear back, making the gap between the highers and lowers even wider.

Yeah i guess you are right about this, when i posted this, i guess i wasn't thinking straight from the frustration maybe. but after 2 weeks of withdrawl from the game i'm thinking i was on the right track...

I realize, that after all the tweaking, why i still miss the original pkillers is because you could not steal swords and shields. I know, I know your probably thinking "Jesus now this guy wants to take away the ability to steal weapons, what next?" But just hear me out.


----If weapons were more than skills and ability to steal abolished----
--------& if skills were curved off or lessened at a certain level--------

The Good
*With weapons costing over 1000 and way over 1000 the incentive to pk is still there
*You would have to work for your weapons by killing players and animals for money
*Letting your bot run all night attacking players or yourself for skill would give you little to no edge
*Letting your bot run all night attacking players &, or, animals for gold would be met with death and you would inevitably lose money.
*And it would end some frustration
*The ability to overcome higher players is possible with hard work.
*New players would stick around longer

The Bad
*People higher than you would still constantly steal your gold and the gold would still "trickle" up to the highest player. ( I can't see anyway to prevent this )
*possible others?

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Stealing seems like it makes the game more dynamic but its only an incentive to gain more skill really. the weapon will eventually end up with who has the higher skill. I could elaborate more about the curving skills, the % ratio of weapons to skills, ect. But i don't want to make this longer than it is.

Synapz wrote:

I want people to compete with one another, not the animals.

I only have the animals in there to produce money when people leave with their gear.

I know it seems like there isn't any of impetus for people to kill animals, but there is a little (that's why you see people getting killed by them every few seconds), and a little is all I really want.

Syn, I tried make these ideas work with those *guidelines* but if the game is really working out how you want, idk if i can change your mind on this. And Idk if this will change the "economy problem" too much, but this would atleast make it more fun and stop botting.

Thoughts Anyone?